If this had been a Christian sign...

[Gotch]

I think it's high.

Of course they wouldn't say something stupid like that. But saying "We've had a history of vandalism." is extremely logical thing to tell him. Yeah, get real. Though the fact that the last act was so long ago, it makes your point even more irrelevant.

And when have I ever said anything to that nature? That's right, I haven't. Never said anything of the sort and nothing I've said about Christianity has been off base.

and I think it's low.....

No they wouldn't say something "stupid" like that and 3 times in fifty years would probably not warrant a warning of "a history of vandalism" BUT given the number of churches in the U.S. it still averages out to my estimate.

I think you are spitting into the wind with trying to convince anyone on here that your previous posts have done anything but make it clear that you hate Christians and Christianity.


NOW, to the real issue. The point of your original post. Are you now ready to admit that you were wrong? The point of your post was that if a vandalism such as took place in North Carolina involving an atheist sign and as reported by a WORLDWIDE news service had instead involved a Christian sign then "we would have never heard the end of how they're (Christians) picked on.

I have shown beyond any doubt that like events have occurred many times (regardless of the number) to Christian based signs, and that not only did we "not hear the end of it" we never heard about it at all. The only stories that could be found were local news blurbs, not WORLDWIDE news agency stories.

Besides that, no big issue was being made of it by the victims. This cannot be said for the whining, crying, woe is us atheist community (such as yourself).

So, are you ready to admit that your original point is incorrect or have you no honor at all?

[R13]

Look I can only look at what you yourself have posted in the past in order to push your view (And it does come off to me at least no different than a regular church goer telling me i need to get saved)

I THINK it can be safely assumed that you do not "KNOW the actions and choices" of all or even most of the Christian people in SWVA because in all honestly that very idea is laughable so YOU make a blanket JUDGMENT of them based on your pre-conseved ideas and that is a VERY human thing to do I think everyone to some extent trys to rationalize the world to fit with what they believe to be true but you can never truly grow as a person till you can see these things from several points of view because when you do that you realize that there are very few 100% right or wrong issues in the world and that the truth is somewhere in between a vast majority of the time.

If you truly do not believe in a god I can understand that you see the religious majority in our area as a a silly bunch of Dogma following sheep that can be used as fodder for those who crave power and are willing to exploit those people........But until you can understand that Someone who is tring to follow the Christian teaching has a need to share there faith with others (Which will bug you as much as them hearing your beliefs in no god will bug them) you will never fully be able to understand the situation.

Well look at the whole quote is all I'm saying.


Where did I ever say all? Nothing I have said applies to all, I never said it's all Christians, when I give my opinion of them it's generally speaking...if it came off as all, that's not what I meant, it's in general. I'm not telling anyone to believe what I do, I don't care really, I'd rather they actually look at their religion and other religions..then question, but I don't care if anyone believes in God or not.


And again, I'm not talking about everyone. Nothing I've said was for everyone, it's for most that I've met or know, it's a lot of people...but of course not close to everyone. I'll repeat, it's generally speaking.


I was in church and around Christians(well still am) most of my life , I know the difference in "letting someone know about God"(which is sometimes a nice way of trying to shove it down peoples throats) and actually forcing their views on others. They need to stop assuming that the reason why people don't believe in their religion isn't because they don't know about it, when most of the time, it's why they know so much about it is why they don't believe it. People don't want to be "saved", they aren't doing anyone a favor and in actuality push more people away from it then bringing them in...and that's not just my opinion.

No they wouldn't say something "stupid" like that and 3 times in fifty years would probably not warrant a warning of "a history of vandalism" BUT given the number of churches in the U.S. it still averages out to my estimate.

I think you are spitting into the wind with trying to convince anyone on here that your previous posts have done anything but make it clear that you hate Christians and Christianity.


NOW, to the real issue. The point of your original post. Are you now ready to admit that you were wrong? The point of your post was that if a vandalism such as took place in North Carolina involving an atheist sign and as reported by a WORLDWIDE news service had instead involved a Christian sign then "we would have never heard the end of how they're (Christians) picked on.

I have shown beyond any doubt that like events have occurred many times (regardless of the number) to Christian based signs, and that not only did we "not hear the end of it" we never heard about it at all. The only stories that could be found were local news blurbs, not WORLDWIDE news agency stories.

You're just making your point more irrelevant, so keep it up. And no it doesn't, because that's not how estimates work and your examples you posted debunks it anyway.

I don't really care how they take it, when I say I don't hate Christians, there's nothing else I can do...esp. when I have a whole family of them, friends and ex's. Anytime someone gives their opinion on here like that, which wasn't the least bit hateful and wasn't the least bit off base, you go spouting off about some "deep seeded hate"...never been right, isn't right now. Kind of laughable coming from you and your rants against muslims and islam.

No, because I'm not wrong, they obviously get reported on every time. You finally going to admit that? The atheist signs are much rarer and when the group had a national campaign to put them up in MAJOR CITIES that had already been picked up by national news. You contradict yourself, you stand by your "estimate" that it happens 50 times a day, then try to claim it's bias against Christianity that it's not picked up by national news 50 times a day. You said that we'd never hear about it period if it were a Christian sign, then post links to those incidents no ones heard of.


And mine where found where? Only one from CNN, the rest are blurbs/blog just like you posted, so I don't really know where you're getting that. Did you hear about this on CNN? I didn't, I read it online just like you probably did, the same internet where you got your stories. Moot point.

[Gotch]

Your whole argument falls apart on two simple points:
1. Your story was carried on a worldwide Internet news service and reported by a nationwide news agency.
2. All of mine were local news blurbs
You have lost this one on all aspects and merits of the argument. Continuing to deny that is pretty irrational.

[CoeburnCane]

Instead of having winners/losers in this, why can't there be two POV's and opinions and we all go forward w/o animosity?

Christ on a cracker...we've got an online pissing contest about who's links are better re: church vandalism on the religion forum.

Anyone else find that absurd, or just me?

[Gotch]

Actually in this case the argument goes to who's links are more obscure.

[TheBeast]

So atheists are going to vandalize their own sign, that they paid for and fought to get put up, to get more publicity which they already had? Hmmmm.

From the same person that has no problem thinking that Alvin Greene was a republican plant.

Warren told the Observer when the sign first went up that its location wasn't intended as a rebuke to the Rev. Graham.

If you believe that then you should have no problem believing that they would vandalize it themselves for the publicity.

[R13]

Your whole argument falls apart on two simple points:
1. Your story was carried on a worldwide Internet news service and reported by a nationwide news agency.
2. All of mine were local news blurbs
You have lost this one on all aspects and merits of the argument. Continuing to deny that is pretty irrational.

FOXNews.com - Missionaries Probed in Shrine Vandalism - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News

CNN.com - US - Vandals target Catholic statues in New York - March 20, 2000

Texas Church Vandalized With Satanic Markings, Racial Slur - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News - FOXNews.com

Now the petty argument you had going is gone, you chose to post local links, that doesn't mean they aren't covered by worldwide news. There's 3 to my 1. Every site is "world wide internet news service" btw, don't even know what you were trying to grasp at there.

From the same person that has no problem thinking that Alvin Greene was a republican plant.

When you come up with another logical reason why, then post it. It's happened before, it's SC politics and it's the most logical reason. The thing about them vandalizing signs that they paid for, fought to get put up and bring negative attention on them...is just moronic.




Your church ties at work btw!
(CNN) -- To his congregants, he lived the humble existence of a pastor.

But a high-flying Connecticut priest was charged this week with first-degree larceny in the theft of almost $1.3 million from his church's coffers to fund a lavish double life that included swanky hotels and male escorts, said Capt. Chris Corbett of the Waterbury Police Department in Connecticut.

Father Kevin Gray, 64, a former pastor at Sacred Heart Church in Waterbury, allegedly embezzled money from the church over the course of seven years.

He used it to pay for fancy restaurants, clothing, vacations, hotels, a New York City apartment and a male companion's tuition at Harvard University, according to an affidavit obtained by CNN affiliate WTIC and filed with the Connecticut Superior Court.

The affidavit says that between June 2003 and March 2010, Gray spent about $205,000 at high-end restaurants, $132,000 in hotel stays and $85,000 at clothing stores. While in New York City, he frequented the Waldorf Astoria, Omni Berkshire, and the W Hotel Times Square, among other posh hotels, the affidavit states.

He also allegedly shopped at high-end retailers including Barneys, Armani and Saks Fifth Avenue.

Along with expensive taste, Gray allegedly kept company with a number of male escorts, and allowed some to have credit cards in their name on his account.

One escort, Islagar Labrada, allegedly charged more than $49,000 to the account.

"Some items Mr. Labrada charged included a stay at the Sheraton in Buena Vista, Florida, storage facilities, computers, computer software, cell phones, anti-aging creams, artwork, Louis Vuitton stores, a home alarm system and bicycles," the affidavit reads. "Mr Labrada also charged $8,864.69 to Crunch Fitness Gym for membership fees."

Another man, Weirui Zhong, who told police he met Gray in Central Park in 2005, said Gray paid for his rented apartment in New York, a piano, dogs and Harvard University tuition since 2008, according to the affidavit.

Zhong told authorities that when he pressed Gray about why he was always paying him with checks from Sacred Heart Church, Gray told him that he won big cases as an attorney, and that he put all his live savings into the church account.

He also lied to Zhong and his parishioners that he was suffering from cancer, the affidavit says.

"Gray became very bitter with the church starting in 2001 when he was transferred to a parish in New Hartford while his mother was dying in New Haven," according to the affidavit. "Mr. Gray stated that when he started in 2003, he began taking the money because he felt the Church owed it to him."

His official salary over those seven years totaled just over $184,000, or almost $27,000 a year.

According to the affidavit, Gray scammed an additional $221,000 in 2005 by signing an agreement with Wireless Capital Partners, a communications company based in Los Angeles, California, to allow a wireless antenna to be placed in the church, though doing so was strictly prohibited.

Gray's scheme came to light after a routine audit of the church's finances by the Archdiocese of Hartford found numerous accounting discrepancies.

"At the financial level, the Archdiocese continues to work with the parish to improve its financial controls and to address issues arising from the situation such as insurance coverage and outstanding indebtedness," the Archdiocese said in a statement. "At the spiritual level, we continue to pray for healing and consolation for the parish family as it moves forward, and for guidance and reconciliation for Father Gray."

Police: Priest used church money on male escorts, lavish lifestyle - CNN.com